Lakewood Bible Study | Erik Luchetta and Jeremy Marrone

((music playing)) Hey, what's up, man? Hey, how you doing? Good. Good to be back with you again tonight. I know that we're going to jump right into um the the topic of eternal life tonight. So, I wanted to ask you this question. What is eternal life? Yeah, that's a great question and it's an important question because it shows up so much in the New Testament.

And so the better we understand eternal life, the more able we'll be able to read the New Testament and understand what Jesus is about and all that the cross accomplished. I think a great place to start if we're looking at what is eternal life is to start with the story of the rich young ruler in Mark 10.

In fact, the rich young ruler comes up to Jesus and he asks him about eternal life. And this is Mark 10:1 17. As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

So, this young man is concerned, "What must I do to get eternal life?" And so, a great place to start in talking about what eternal life means is to say first what it doesn't usually mean. It's not referring so much about going to heaven when you die. Eternal life is more about when heaven comes fully and finally to the earth to transform it.

That and this is the way the book of revelation ends. The way the Bible ends, the Bible ends with heaven coming fully to the earth, removing sin, removing evil, sickness, and disease, and lack. Everything that degrades and ruins God's good world is removed. And God establishes the earth as a place of perfect peace and justice.

Everything is set right. And in the Old Testament, the hope, the Jewish hope was one day God's people would inherit that world, that they would live there forever. It was the hope that Eden would be reborn and Eden would cover the entire world. So when we talk about eternal life, we are talking not so much about going to heaven as much as heaven coming to the earth finally and fully to transform the world like the Garden of Eden, which is exactly like I just said, how the book of Revelation ends.

Yeah. Sometimes, and and I'd love for you to address this. Sometimes when I hear the phrase eternal life, I think of duration, right? I think of amount of time. I don't think that's fully what is being described obviously is the amount of time but the quality of it.

Yeah. Would you would you agree with that? Absolutely. the quality of our life and and and the life that um the life of creation, the life of God's good world, all of that being tied in, not just human beings lives, but the the quality of God's creation being restored back to its original form.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that certainly if we say eternal life, we are in a sense talking about duration, an unending amount of time, which is true. But like you said, we tend to only think that way. We hear eternal life and we think timelessness. Well, I think that's true, but like you said, when we use the word eternal, we're not talking about a length of time.

We're talking about a quality of time, a quality of life. And so, you can imagine if sin and death and sickness and evil is removed and justice and peace are here, that's quality of life. It's even hard to imagine what a world like that would be. But I think that's a really good point that you bring up that when we talk about eternal life, we're talking more than a duration of time.

We're talking about a quality of life. Now, I was raised uh I'm a pastor's kid. I was raised in the church to think that the goal of my Christian walk with God is to eventually leave the earth and go to heaven when [clears throat] I die. which heaven in my mind was a place that wasn't it was sort of not really physical physical it was sort of a spiritual existence you know streets of gold uh you know gemstones on the gate uh of heaven uh where Peter stands and sort of gives the yes [laughter] to different people that was sort of my picture in my mind, but I I that's not the way the Bible describes our eternal life.

You're you're saying, and if I'm hearing you right, you're saying here on the earth is eternal life. God's desire is not to get us out of earth into heaven. That's sort of a disembodied spiritual existence somewhere else. But he's trying to get heaven to earth together. Yeah. So that that life can be experienced.

Yeah. Let me let's just just to clarify. Yes. When you die, if you died right now, you would go to heaven. Yes. Your body would go into the ground and you would go to heaven. The presence of the Lord. You would be fully aware that you're in the presence of the Lord, seeing Jesus, seeing your loved ones.

We are not denying that. The scriptures are not denying it. The Apostle Paul is very clear. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That's the reality. And so what we're not saying is that when you die, you don't go to heaven. What we're saying is that when we're talking about eternal life, we're talking about in the end, in the final analysis, when Jesus returns to establish God's rule perfectly and fully in the earth, removing sin and death, that we would be raised bodily, just like Jesus was raised bodily, physically, and we would inherit the earth as a gift to rule over.

Again, this is why the rich young ruler intentionally uses the word inherit eternal life. This is an inheritance for God's family, for God's children. And this is where it gets a little bit radical. We don't inherit heaven alone. We inherit a world where it's heaven on earth, a heaven on earth reality.

So, you might say, "Well, Eric, are you saying we won't live forever in heaven?" Well, no. We will live forever. Where will heaven be? The question is where will heaven be? Heaven will be on the earth. We will be raised bodily and we will live in a heaven and earth reality simultaneously.

Which here's the thing, that's what was going on in the Garden of Eden. Adam physically human yet walking with God. God actually walking and talking with him in the earth. Right? That's the prototype. That's the reality that God always wanted from the beginning. God called that very good.

Man in the earth and God with man dwelling with man in the earth. In other words, heaven and earth together. He calls very good. And whatever he calls very good, he's committed to until the very end. So when we talk about what Jesus Jesus's death and resurrection, we're talking about now he's making this Eden project a reality once again.

He's kickstarting it again through his death and resurrection. Heaven and earth are starting to come together again. But they will come together fully when he returns. Removes sin and death and establishes God's perfect rule. As the Bible would describe it, the age to come. The age to come.

Yeah. The present evil age versus the age to come. And the line of demarcation is the full and complete establishing of the kingdom through Jesus on earth as it is in heaven. Yeah. And sin and death removed because it hasn't been removed yet. Yeah. Yeah. Sin and death clearly hasn't been removed even though Jesus started it.

He inaugurated or launched it. Yeah. at his death and resurrection but and his ascension but it has not been fully eradicated. So I I think one of the things, what does this have to do because this has been my one question as a follower of Jesus since the way that I used to think about okay going to heaven when I die and eternal life and that heaven and earth will be one.

They will be unified in Jesus. Ephesians 1:10, all things in heaven on earth unified in unity. What does that mean for me now as a human being that's a follower of Jesus? Everything. Because it seems like like this is the big thing that has has transformed my thinking.

Going back and and reading the scriptures and saying, "Okay, here's what the Bible says about eternal life and here's what the Bible means when it says eternal life." Right? When Jesus talks about eternal life, when the rich young ruler talks about eternal life, this is a like boots on the ground.

My life is anchored to what God is doing in the world. Where when I was growing up, I had a very like escapist mindset. Like I just I'm just waiting to get out of here. I'm waiting for God to come and and destroy all the bad and the evil and horrible things in the world and the world itself and take us out of here.

And I just I I don't think the Bible describes it like that. Yeah. Right. And so I guess I would ask you, what does this have to do with me as a human being, as a follower of Jesus, redeemed by the blood of Jesus and his resurrection? Um, eternal life.

What does this mean for me right now? Yeah. Think of what Jesus taught us to pray. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That's the goal of God. The way God rules heaven and how he makes heaven look and feel, he wants the earth to reflect the same thing.

Yeah. God's will that's going on in heaven to be going on in the earth. So when we see the message of the gospel, it's much more about not us going to heaven, although that's true. when we die. We've already covered that it's not so much about going to heaven.

It's about heaven coming to the earth. And here's the part that answers your question. You said, "What does this have to do with me?" And I said, "Everything." And here's why. God's will is being done on the earth through you and I as spiritfilled believers. We are the agents by which God's will is being done.

So if the gospel announces the good news, God's beginning to take over to clean up his world to fulfill the hope that was pro promised in the Old Testament, the radical part of that story is that you and I are the agents by which God is actually doing that.

We're we're engaging and participating in it. Yeah. It's more than just experiencing it. We are participating in the active in actively doing those things. And so when we when we look at Jesus's life, he goes around and he's doing healings, right? Miracles. People are being set free. Demons are cast out.

People are being fed. And we might look at that and say, well, you know, Jesus is freeing people and healing people because he loves people. Which I say absolutely. He did it because he loves people, right? But when Jesus would do those things, he explained it differently than just love.

He would say, "This is the kingdom of God come upon you." Yes. In other words, when Jesus healed, it was an announcement that God was beginning to deal with the things that harm and hurt and degrade this world that destroy humanity, the sin, the sickness and disease. Jesus is going around announce, not just announcing that God's rule is coming, but he's the agent by which it's coming through.

And then he summons us, you and I, come partake, participate in this global takeover, this re restoration of Eden project. And so we as Jesus's faithful followers renew our minds to the reality that the gospel is the announcement not just that we go to heaven when we die, but God wants us to be the agents by which the by which heaven comes through into the earth.

Yeah. And we, whether we know it or not, as believers, when we confess Jesus is Lord, when we say we believe, we're actually signing up for that job, for that description to be the ones through whom God is bringing his will in heaven onto the earth. That's right.

And we see, you know, when pastor when pastor Joel talks about this every week, he makes a statement and it and it never fails. He says, "God is on the throne." Yeah. Yeah. That statement is you can you can tie that to the in entire story of the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation that leads to Jesus.

Jesus is the pinnacle. The gospels are the mountaintop of the scriptures and it is the place where we see God taking over. He is on the throne. He rules. I heard one pastor from Portland, a guy that I like to listen to. He said this earlier today. I was listening to a teaching or a talk he was doing and he basically said there's there's very few places in the entire gospels where you see God you see Jesus doing a miraculous healing or something like that that doesn't have to do with evangelism.

Now what do we mean by evangelism? That means that person realizes that he is God and that God is taking over. And he basically describes it as this is you know especially in the west in western Christianity it's like if we can convince people to hold the right ideas about God if we can convince them to think the right rational thoughts about who God is that's spiritual life and he was saying no no no he's like when when God does something in the life of a person a miracle when he does something um we think that If we're convinced of Jesus, then we'll get to see his miracles, his power.

We'll get to experience that life. And he was saying, this pastor was saying, "No, no, no." Jesus wanted them to experience it and then realize this is the kingdom of God breaking into your life right now. And it would it would stir them to give their allegiance to Jesus.

Yeah. Yeah. And that was the whole point was like, man, the gospels are one powerful testimony to the inbreaking kingdom of God that cannot you you it cannot be denied. Yeah. You may not know what to call it. You may not have the words to describe it or explain it, but you know that it's breaking into your life when you experience it.

And so he was saying, man, we we should we should believe and pray for God to do miraculous things in and through us every day. Um, however big or small we think they are, miracles show up in all forms. And I think to pray to say, God, your kingdom come, your will be done through me today.

Yeah. Because I want to participate in the in the inbreaking kingdom of God. Yeah. Amen. And I that's exactly what we're called to do is again to be the agents by which God's rule in heaven begins to take root in the earth. Cuz remember God's will ultimately is that heaven and earth reflect one another.

Right? Because of sin and evil. They're disjointed. They don't look like one another. But God has committed that the earth and heaven perfectly reflect one another in peace, in justice, in righteousness, in love, in abundance. And Jesus is saying it's beginning to take over. Eternal life is starting to show up.

Sure, we know from scripture that it comes fully in the future. God's rule is breaking in. But sin and death are still very real. Evil is very real. Just turn on the TV, watch the news, you're going to see evil. Nevertheless, that should not discourage us because God's rule is coming in and through the name of Jesus.

In fact, let me read to you from John 10, okay? Verse 28. This is the words of Jesus. John 10:28. Jesus says, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. I give them eternal life." Again, if you're a Jewish person in Jesus's day, like the rich young ruler, waiting for God to fix this world, and you hear Jesus say, "I'm going to give you that life.

You're waiting for the life of the age to come. It's breaking in right now, and I'm giving it to you." Yeah. And then he would turn and do a miracle. He'd heal somebody and he'd say, "See that the life of the future, the life of perfection is showing signs now.

Sure, it has not arrived fully yet. Sin, death, and evil still exist. But it's beginning to break in even in the present. Make no mistake about it that when you see a healing, it's more than God loving you, as important as that is. It's God showing all of creation where creation is going.

It's headed towards glory. It's headed to full restoration. So, the feeding of the 5000 is another way of saying one day in the new heavens and new earth, nobody will be hungry. That's right. When Jesus raises somebody from the dead, it's a sign that one day there will be a resurrection from the dead and all of God's people will be raised and they will inherit the new heavens and the new earth, the combined living reality.

And so all of these things, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are challenging us to see that it's coming through Jesus. The new heavens and new earth in a sense, has already started. Eternal life has already begun. The abundance has already started to take root. That's good. There was a lady in a a class I was doing the other night that asked raised her hand and asked a question.

We were talking Bible stuff and she raised her hand and asked a question and she said, "How do I know? How do I how can I tell that the kingdom of God has come to the earth through me? And how do I get it to stay? And I thought, what a great two questions back to back.

I said, let's take the first one. I said, first of all, you see in the scriptures through your life by the spirit, by the power of God, not our own power. We're not claiming that in any way. We are basically the the vehicle, the vessel by which God wants to use the agent as love that phrase, the agent of the kingdom.

Um and and I said, "You will see these things." Now, is it always a miraculous healing? No. It may look like my wife calling me at the grocery store and saying, "Hey, there's a lady in front of me can't pay for her groceries. Do you mind?" And I'm like, "Go for it.

I don't care how much. Pay for it. The kingdom of God has come upon her." Why? Because generosity is the kingdom of God. Yes. Forgiveness. My girls when they argue and fight and we tell them, you know, one of them says, "I'm I'm sorry. I shouldn't have hit you."

And the other one goes, "It's okay." And I go, "No, that's not what we say." We say one thing. I forgive you. Yeah. Forgiveness is the inbreaking of the kingdom of God. In our home, that's a big one. And I think for us as humans, when you see generosity, when you see forgiveness, when you see um when you see joy, when you see the fruits of the spirit, when you see these things happening, it's yes and absolutely miracles, you know, salvation, healing, all of that.

Great. But when you see the kingdom of God breaking in, you can say, "Man, uh, this looks like what I read in the Bible. This looks like what I read in scripture. This looks like God's revelation to me." And then she said, "How do we get it to stay?

How do I get it to keep showing up?" Is basically what she was saying in my life. And I said, "You can't make it. All you can do is make yourself available through your allegiance to Jesus." Yeah. To the the to the work of the spirit. That's the only the Holy Spirit in us is the power of God.

So through the gospel, through the announcement that Jesus is king and he rules and and it hit is one who's he's the one who's ruling over the earth. So I think at the end of the day it's like how do we do this practically like boots on the ground practically and that's what I think is happening.

Let's say like in the sermon on the mount you and I have talked about this before. I think that's what Jesus is saying like this this message of the kingdom of God should have us anchored and oriented to the earth to the work that is being done in the world because sometimes I I can say for myself growing up it was like man to think heavenly thoughts was to sort of be absent from what was happening in the world and to think about things that weren't bad.

Yeah. Just think about things that are good and heavenly. And it's like I would agree that there are times when we need to meditate on what is good, especially in the scriptures. Yeah. On the goodness of God and things above. But that doesn't mean we stay there. That means that we take those things and we begin to exert those things by the Holy Spirit into the world.

Yeah. To be a light where there's darkness. Yeah. One of the things that I do and I found this to be really really helpful and in different ways. I think this is what Jesus is saying in the gospels is that we should ask ourselves that whatever it is that we're facing, whatever we find ourselves doing or whoever we find ourselves talking to, we have to ask ourselves is what I'm saying is what I'm and what I'm doing is this right now going on at in heaven.

Right? [clears throat] So, for example, if I'm tempted to gossip and uh behind somebody's back say something negative, I should ask myself, is this going on in heaven right now? If the answer is no, well then I wouldn't do those things because I'm the agent by which heaven's will is being done on earth.

I have to ask myself, what's going on in heaven? Is what I'm saying? Is what I'm doing going on in heaven? No. Well, then I don't participate in it. And I think that's so much about what our allegiance to God is, is to say, I want your will to be done on earth as in heaven.

And by your grace and by the spirit, I want to be the agent by which you're claiming this world for yourself once again. So, here's another thing. Let's just say somebody I know, somebody I love gets a bad doctor's report. They get diagnosed with some sort of serious illness.

My first question is this. Is this illness going on right now in heaven? If the answer is no, and the answer is no, then I know I can pray for healing for that person because I know that that sickness is outside of the will of heaven. I'm the agent in my life and in my prayer by which God's will is being done in the earth by the Holy Spirit.

So, one of the things that helps me as a believer is to constantly ask ask myself in everything that I say and do, every situation I experience, is this going on in heaven right now? And if the answer is yes, then I move forward. I know what God's will is.

If it's not, then I don't participate or I try not to participate in those things because of who I am as a follower of Jesus. That's good. And I think that it it is it is as much it is as much resisting temptation to go the way of the world, the world's power, the world's corruption as it is to say yes to heaven's way of doing things.

Yeah. Um, and I think that, you know, so much I I can look back on my life and say so much of what has happened in my own life has been a testimony to God working in me and God working in me for others. Um, and so my prayer always is that prayer.

God, do do something do something wild today through me. Yeah. Like bless the people around me. Yeah. Bless bless other people's lives. And I think that's the the the covenant that God has always given to his people is he wants us to be a blessing. He wants us to be a light in the life of God, eternal life, which means not just length, but quality.

Yeah. I mean, John John 10:10, the the abundant life that Jesus brings. Um, now I guess I guess the thought is with us as human beings, we were created for that. It went sideways. Jesus came to restore us to that place. So, I guess I would I would throw it out there that Garden of Eden project that we are now participating because the the scriptures say Peter uh the pastor in in first and second Peter, he he addresses this in a number of different ways, but I'll be real clear.

He said we participate in the life of God. Yeah. That doesn't mean we we sort of um you know meld into the infinitess that is God. We don't become God. Yeah. We don't become, but we share in his life. And you've talked about this before and and I want to say this.

I know that you and I we we keep this as a central idea and theme that we talk about a lot. Yeah. On Lakewood Bible study. Yeah. We we believe it's central to understanding scripture. Exactly. So when we talk about this and this is something that we talk about every single time you and I come together.

It's because we don't believe this is the way you read a passage of scripture but all the passages of scripture to say what is the Bible and what is it trying to help us understand about who God is and who we are and what this whole world is and what we're supposed to be doing here.

[snorts] And so I I think that for me is it has so it has transformed not just what I cuz it my mindset used to be I'm going to think about what is eternal what is eternal life coming up. I'm just sort of waiting for that eternal life to come and and Jesus is like I gave it to you now and you are participating in eternal life.

I mean the scriptures are clear for us as believers. The eternal life has begun now. Yeah. Yeah. It has already begun and we are participating in this project and where it is going. Yeah. Yeah. That's and like you just said, looking at it that way helps us to understand the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

It's um it's more than a concept. It's almost like the guiding light of scripture. Yes. That God himself created a good world and he's committed to it. 100% committed to it. What do we mean by that? We're talking about a physical earth that God loves and God wants to dwell in it just like he lived with Adam and Eve in the garden.

And again, that's how the book of Revelation ends. That's how the Bible ends. It's amazing. It actually ends for the most part with this. Heaven and earth come together. They become married where they reflect one another. Sin and death are gone. God's people inherit the earth. And you know what these people say?

They say, "Look," in celebration, they say, "Look, the dwelling place of God is now with humans." Yeah. The celebration is that God can finally fully live in a redeemed earth because sin and death are gone. Now, because of the work of the of Jesus, [snorts] sin and death are gone and God can finally fully dwell in the earth with all of humanity again the way he wanted to in the garden.

Yes. So, I think that as we close tonight out, let's just remember this. The Bible is the story of God and his good world. That's right. His world went sideways. Human beings became bad managers of God's world. But he was committed to still human beings managing his world and him living with human beings in the world where heaven and earth are married.

The death and resurrection of Jesus is the defeat of the evil that corrupts God's good world. And the inbreaking of heaven's rule has started to take root. Every time we use the name of Jesus, heaven's rule comes into earth. Every time in the name of Jesus, we encourage somebody or help them out financially if they just lost their job and they can't pay their bills.

It's even in those seemingly small things. God's rule is taking root in the earth. That's right. And it's doing it in anticipation of the day where it shows up finally and fully and everything is set right. And you and I get to be the people right now in the present showing signs of that future as we wait for the full inheritance of a redeemed heaven and earth.

Uh I want to share something and we'll close. Um, I had a friend of mine who discovered a 1955 Studebaker, beautiful car, in a barn in in the middle of uh, nowhere, and it had rust on it, and it was just it was beaten up and had been sitting in there for, you could tell, for years and years.

He pulls it out. He begins to work on it. He strips it down. He sands it down. He works on the engine. He gets everything polished up. He repaints the whole thing. He puts it all together. The most beautiful 1955 Studebaker I've ever seen. Gorgeous. He put a mint green on there with a khaki color.

It was awesome. Wow. But the car had not been functioning for what it was designed for. It wasn't designed to be an ornament in a barn. It was designed to carry human beings down the street and it did it in style. But it took somebody to see that it could be restored.

And I think that is a simple picture or analogy. It's not a perfect one, but an analogy of what our lives can with of what God's called us to be and do to find things that need to be restored by his power. And I think to begin to see those signs, we are like little Wi-Fi hotspots in the world where where people see us and it's like our connection between heaven and earth.

It it's this the power of God, the Holy Spirit in us. Um, and people begin to see heaven and earth come together because of Jesus. Not because of us, but because of Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit in us. I think that's really important. But I'll say this, one of the most practical things that I have seen in my own life and in those around me that I've learned from is practicing the presence of God is, I think, central to our everyday life of experiencing the kingdom coming through us.

So I would say for anybody watching or listening, practice the presence of God regularly and you will begin to see the kingdom come through and out into the world from your life because the Holy Spirit when we connect with God in his presence, we begin to see the kingdom show up because Jesus wants to do that.

But he's got to he's got to be in a place where he can constantly talk to us, where he can constantly communicate with us and then say, "Okay, go here. Okay, love that person. Okay, give here. Okay, help this person. Okay, forgive that person. And and the more that we practice the presence of God, the more that we'll see the kingdom in our own lives.

Amen. That's that's awesome. That's a perfect way to wrap this up as well. Yep. Well, I appreciate you, man. Thank you for explaining what is eternal life to us. Yeah. Thank you.