Lakewood Bible Study | Lisa Osteen Comes & Paul Osteen, M.D.

Good evening everybody. I am Pastor Jeremy and thank you for tuning in once again to Monday night Bible study. Uh we just want to say uh we appreciate you being part of our online community, our extended family and um we're grateful that you have watched again tonight. Um tonight is going to be a little bit different.

Usually we have a lecture style teaching uh with a pulpit and and and uh tonight is going to be a little bit different in that we are going to have a conversation and I've wanted to sit down with Dr. Paul Ostein and Pastor uh Lisa Ostein Gomez for a little while and just ask them some questions.

So we're going to do that tonight and actually have an opportunity to ask them a few questions about hearing the voice of God. And over the next couple of weeks, we actually have a collection of of Monday nights that we are going to be talking about hearing the voice of God.

And so, if you've had questions, if you've wondered, we would love for you to write in to us at bible studywood.cc bible stududywood.cc. You can email us any questions and maybe the conversation tonight stirs your thoughts, your thinking. Um, but we'd love to hear from you. Uh, as well, if you want to follow along with us in the Bible study ministry, uh, you can follow along.

Bible study, two words, but put together Bible study at 77377. You can just text us Bible study to 77377 and you'll get text outs uh, periodically knowing what's happening and what's coming up in our schedule for Monday nights. U, but once again, thank you for being a part of Monday night Bible study.

And, uh, we're going to go ahead and get started. I want to introduce Pastor Lisa Ostein Gomez and Dr. Paul Ostein. uh many of you know them already. Um uh they are uh the founding members of of Lakewood Church and um and we're appreciative that they took the time tonight to sit and just discuss.

So this is going to be a discussion. It's going to be a back and forth. Um and we hope that this is a discussion as if we're sitting in your living room and we're just having a conversation and talking uh that you can see. But um but Pastor Lisa, Dr.

Paul, thank you. Thank you for thanks for doing this to be here. This is going to be fun. It is going to be very good. Um we're going to go ahead and jump right into it uh because we got a lot to get to. We don't want to waste any time.

So, I'm going to go ahead and and and ask the first question, but um uh Dr. Paul and I were talking uh a minute ago and and I just wanted to to reiterate um that all of us, regardless of how long we've walked with the Lord, how long we've been Christians, how long we've done ministry, the experience or anything like that, we're all in a place where we're continuing to learn to hear the voice of God.

Would you speak to that, Dr. Paul? Yeah. I mean, the last thing in the world I'd want anybody to know is that we get it right every time because sometimes we do miss it. But, you know, part of living as long as we've lived is that we've been trying for a long period of time.

And some of the things, the lessons that we've learned, I think we can convey to, you know, I to teach my kids all tell my kids all the time some of these things just to help people um, you know, learn from the things that we've learned from the mistakes we've made.

But no, I think that um, you know, there's a saying in baseball, you're only as good as your last step at bad. And it's very similar with the voice of God. You've got to continually listen and not ever get, you know, to the point where, you know, you're not disciplined enough to get up every morning and not only talk to God, but to listen to God.

And as we'll talk about in this in this conversation, just listen on the inside. Not necessarily listen, you know, to your mind, not necessarily listen to to other voices, but to listen on the inside. And so, no, I I think it's important to realize that uh I love what Eugene Peterson says.

He says Christianity is a long obedience in the same direction. That's good. And you know what? We've just been obeying God for a long time and we're we've learned to to to we've learned some things about listening to the voice of God and that we want to share them, but by no means are we the experts in it.

We're just uh we're just learners like everybody else. That's good. That's good. Uh Pastor Lisa, would you pray for us as we get started? Oh, yeah. I'd love to. Okay. Father, we just thank you that we can come together and just talk about your word and your ways and your your voice.

And Father, I pray that today that you would speak through Pastor Jeremy and and Paul and me. And that you would answer the questions that maybe your people have right now as they watch. And I pray that you would encourage their hearts and strengthen them. Father, that you would give them wisdom and revelation and just speak through us.

Father, you know what needs to be said. You know what needs to be heard. And I pray for every person that may have a need right now. Maybe uh they need healing in their bodies. They have a uh maybe a financial need, a legal matter that they're facing, a family matter.

Father, you know every need. And I thank you that you got them covered. And I just pray for strength, for energy, for wisdom, for direction in their life. and that they would be very encouraged today as we talk about you and your word in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.

Amen. Now we have God's word and the Bible says as believers that we are so are indwelled with his spirit that the Holy Spirit lives within us. 1 Corinthians 3 that we are the temple of God. Um so I I want to I want to ask the first question as we launch into the first question.

I want to ask the first question and maybe maybe those out watching have the same question. Um but this is a question I've walked through a lot in my own life. Um you know as a pastor's kid born and raised in the church. Um I I I have a lot of experience sitting in church and listening.

Um but one of the questions I've always had is how do we hear the voice of God? How does God speak to us? And so I'd actually like that to be our first just sort of jumping off question here. Um, how does God speak to us in an experiential way?

What are some practical ways that God will um that we can hear his voice in life? So I want to start there. We can camp out there for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So well, I'll just start with this. I'm going to back up a little bit because I think we as pastors get this question a lot.

You know, why am I not hearing the word of God? other pe uh the voice of God. Other people hear the voice of God. I can't hear the voice of God. And I think just there there are many ways that God speaks to us. And that's what this is all about.

We're going to talk about that and we're going to learn. But the first thing I just want you to settle in your heart is that you can hear the voice of God like anyone else. God speaks to all of his people. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice.

I know them and they follow me." Yeah. And so just know that you can hear the voice of God. And I I want to encourage you to just even stop saying I can't hear the voice of God. I don't know how to hear from God. Uh God doesn't speak to me.

This is another God doesn't speak to me like he speaks to other people. And that's not true. And so I want to encourage you to quit saying that and realize that you are a believer. You're the sheep of uh Jesus pasture. And the Bible says, Jesus said that you will know my voice and you will follow me.

And so you can know the voice of God. You can follow him. He does speak to you. So I just want you to get all of those lies out of your mind and your thoughts right now. And start saying, "God, I thank you that you do speak to me, that I can hear your voice, and I'm going to learn how to hear your voice."

And and the Bible talks about there's many ways, but I I'll just stop there. But I wanted to just sort of lay that as a foundation first. Yeah, that's good. That's good. And I think um I think to your point, I think you're right. I think sometimes sometimes we can wrestle with can I hear God?

I think that's a great question. Um you know, and I I appreciate you answering that because uh that's a really good starting spot to say, okay, has God has God ordained it for us to hear from him? Has he done that? Yeah. And sometimes we need to hear from God.

Like we we're praying and we ask God, "God, show me direction or show me what to do about this." And if we're not careful, we'll just anguish about there and about it. Sit there in anguish. But I've just learned to ask and go about my day and not anguish over it.

And it's amazing how uncanny it is that God will speak to me as I'm walking to my car or just dropped something in my heart and all of a sudden he's answered it or he's brings a person into my life who's the answer to my prayer. And I I think that we can just learn to relax a little bit, ask God what we need to know, and then just go about our day and let him speak to our spirit at at the time he wants to speak to us.

That's good. Does does he speak to to your point does he speak to us about detailed things in our life? Does he speak I mean obviously he speaks about big things you know our our identity our our future career you know um uh someone we may have a relationship with.

But does God speak to us about small what we would consider smaller detailed things of our life? I mean is that why is that why he speaks to us? Uh I believe he does. I mean it it doesn't mean it's an everyday occurrence, right? But he's concerned about everything.

And uh you know the Bible says we have not because we ask not. And if we need wisdom and direction or we cannot solve a problem or a challenge, you know, we're to go to him boldly and ask him. For for example, one thing that happened to me several years ago is I kept having this pain in my neck and it got worse and worse.

And you know, I I I kept taking all the Tylenol I could until I realized something's wrong. Went to the doctor, they couldn't figure it out. Gave me a medicine, didn't work. And so I just said, "God, you know, we I can't figure this out. You're going to have to show me."

And so I just dropped it, let it go. And that's when I was walking to my car one day, getting in my car and and God just dropped something into my spirit and I knew I thought that's my answer. I would have never known that. I went back to the see the doctor and I said, "Could it be this?"

And he said, "Absolutely. I'm going to give you this medicine to help you." And that was the answer. And I wouldn't have had that unless I would have asked. And it was just in my spirit. All of a sudden, I had this knowing uh this word came to my spirit, not to my mind, but to my spirit, and I knew it was an answer.

So, yeah, my my answer to that is yes, he can. Big and little, he's concerned about it. Uh does he speak to us every day like that in our spirit? Maybe not. Uh the main way he speaks to us is through his word, but God does speak to us.

That's good. That's good. Dr. Paul, uh, have there been moments in your life where you distinctly heard the voice of God? Yeah, several times. Um, but to kind of go along with what Lisa said, I think the most important thing, Jeremy, for for me to that I learned was that God doesn't speak necessarily to my mind.

I'm kind of an intellectual kind of person. I like to read. I like to, you know, I will read my Bible. I'll read other books. But this is different. When God speaks to you, he doesn't necessarily speak to your mind. Lisa has mentioned several times he speaks to your spirits, but that spirit, but that just means he speaks to the deepest part of us, our heart.

And the way I feel like it happens is he speaks to my spirit and then it comes to my mind. That's right. Like I I feel this little nudge or voice on the inside and then it has words on in my mind. And so I think if you're just looking for him to speak to your mind, you may be, you know, you may need to think about what we're saying here.

He speaks to your spirit. And you know, when we're born again, the Bible says that our spirits come alive. I like to equate it to a a radio. You know, there are sound waves everywhere here. We can't hear those sound waves because we don't have a a receiver.

But now we have a receiver on the inside, and that's the Holy Spirit. The Bible says that the spirit witnesses to our spirit. The Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit. In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit. So, I think one of the most important things is to realize that God speaks to us in our spirit, maybe not every day, but you I think one of the things I would really want people to to take away from this, Jeremy, is that the most important thing we can do every day is to listen for the voice of Jesus.

That's good. Daddy used to say it like this. The Christian life is very simple. Follow the lamb wherever he goes. And God would never have asked us to follow it. follow him. If we couldn't hear his voice, that means we can hear his voice. So, I would just I would just encourage people that we can hear his voice.

Uh listen to it every day. And we'll talk about this later, but I have to put myself in a situation where I am the most likely to hear from God. And to me, I have to be in nature. I have to be walking. I have to be doing something.

The other thing is I can't just be praying all the time. I mean, I know the Bible says pray continuously, but what I mean by that prayer is a two-way street. It's where we also listen. So, but to your point, let me just give you an example of what happened one time to Lisa's point really.

I was practicing surgery and I I think you know whatever vocation that God's put you in is just as much a ministry as being in the in the in the ministry that I'm in now. But I've considered being a surgeon as much a ministry as I do now.

But I saw this lady one time. Many times people would send me patients that other people had seen and couldn't figure out what was wrong with them. And so I I'm sure it was part of that that I could, you know, God would direct me. But anyway, this lady came in and she was having this distinct pain in one part of her abdomen.

And this was before there were sophisticated CT scans and things like that. And and I remember I sat there and I listened to her and as I was listening to her, I the Holy Spirit spoke to me and he he said this. He said, "There's something wrong with her and if you operate on her, you'll find out what it is."

And I was floored because I wasn't, you know, an operation's a big deal. And I wasn't about to offer an operation if I wasn't 100% sure. But, you know, I followed that. I I gave her the pros and cons and said, you know, here's the deal. I could find nothing.

But I I said, I really think I might I might find what's causing your problem. I operated on her. I didn't find a thing. And finally, right before I closed the abdomen, I had a retractor in her abdomen pulling it back so I could see. I moved that retractor.

And under my retractor was a little thing about the size of my fingernail. And I thought, "What is that?" And so I just took it out very simply, closed her back up, and lo and behold, that was a nerve tumor that was causing her problem. And she had no problems after that.

And you know, le Lisa said this before we started, but one of the ways you learn to hear God's voice is by missing it. And if I hadn't have operated on her, in the back of my mind, I would have thought, you know what? But when I did operate on her, I got this positive feedback.

That was God's voice speaking to you. So be sensitive to that. Be listening for that every day because like Lisa said, you may be sitting examining a patient. You may be working on a, you know, a project at work. You may be parenting a child and he tells you something about that situation.

But the key is just to be listening on the inside to what he might say to you. That's good. So good. Is it is it an audible voice that we hear? Well, let me ask it like this. Can it be an audible voice that we hear? Sometimes it can I don't think it's very often, but sometimes it's so strong in your spirit it can sound audible.

Um like one time I was uh I was ministering sort of trying to reach out to a girl that worked out where I worked out. this was in my 20s and um I just thought, you know, she's interested in the things of God and I wanted to really minister to her.

And so she asked me after a while to come over to her house and uh just do a Bible study with she and her husband. And so I was going to do it. You know, I just thought this is great. They're really opening up. And so I came home from work.

I decided to lay down just a moment to rest before I went over there. And I'm telling you, the Holy Spirit, it was not audible, but it woke me up and all I heard was danger. Danger. Don't go. And so I jumped up and I knew it was not me.

It was not in my mind. And I thought, how am I going to get out of this? And but I just thought, I'm going to get out of this. I have never heard a sound so strong in my spirit. And yet it was in my spirit. It was seemed audible.

And so I called and I said I can't come. And you know she was never interested after that. And I don't know what God prevented me from. But you know the Bible talks about how the Holy Spirit will warn us and even the word of God will warn us.

But it was it was in my spirit but it was so strong God had to get my attention. It seemed audible. I don't think I've ever heard an audible voice. Uh though. But have you Paul? No. I mean I agree. Most of the time these little subtle little whispers to your spirit and you think what is that?

Is that me? Is that God? Is that right? You know, the only time that it got close to audible is, you know, and we'll talk about this later, but driving home from the memorial service of my dad, I heard these three sentences come out. Give up your practice.

Move to Houston and help. And it was like somebody in the car is on the stereo of the car. And yet it it came out of my spirit and it came to my mind, but it was just so clear. And but no, I've never heard an audible voice.

I'm sure God can do that, but I think the majority of the way, 99.99% of the time, he he speaks to us in deep impressions to our spirit. That's right. And you know, we'll talk about this too, but it's always in alignment with God's word. Now, you know, the primary way God speaks to us is through his word.

So, he's not going to ever whisper something to my spirit that is contrary to his word. I think it's really important to know that. So that was actually going to be my next question. Uh uh thank you for taking us there. I I clearly hearing God through his word.

Hearing God through still small voice. Yeah. What about um maybe maybe audible, maybe not. Most of the I've not heard an audible voice before. Um I've been in my house alone when I was younger and thought that there was somebody in my house. don't know that it was the Lord but uh you know in that in that sort of moment where you go is somebody in the house um but I I I will say this you know I think one of the ways that I I can only speak for for my experience with Tara my wife is God has spoken to me through other people many times in life yeah and in fact that's how we that's how we came to Lakewood is I've not told the story a whole lot but we were in Long View Texas north of here about three hours and we were pastoring at a church there on staff as children's pastors and it was a Wednesday night after service and we had a coordinator from our children's ministry.

She was over our our two and three-year-olds. She came up to us at the end of service. It's about 9:15 9:30 on a Wednesday night. She said, "I see you leaving." And I said, "Yes, it's been a long day and I want to go home and eat water burger.

Yes, I am I am tired." She said, "No, no, no, no, no. I see you leaving. And I thought to myself, "What do you mean leaving?" And we asked her, "What do you mean leaving?" She said, "I think your time at at uh New Covenant is done." And I thought to myself, and she had no idea that for a couple of months, Tara and I had been feeling a transition.

And I could not describe it. I could not describe it. I didn't I didn't know what it meant. and and you come to that place sometimes in life where you go, I feel something changing, but I can't put my finger on it. I don't have clarity. She walked up to us on a Wednesday night, she and her husband, and she said, I see you leaving.

That was Wednesday. Thursday, we got a call from um somebody on staff here at Lakewood and said, "We'd like you to consider taking the job as elementary directors for Kids Life." And I just remember holding the phone as if telephones look like this. Uh I remember holding the phone and looking at Tara and saying she was right.

Something is changing. And so um it was is interesting. A week later we didn't tell anybody. Went right to our senior pastor who's who's kind of a second father to me. Uh went right to our senior pastor, told him what we were feeling. told him, you know, what what the offer was and just ask him to pray.

Just said, "Pray with us. We want to make sure that we're hearing God." So that was Wednesday or Thursday of the next week. That following Friday night, we had a big life group leaders dinner and we were there. And we had another one of our children's coordinators who came up to us and she looked at us with tears and she said, "You're leaving, aren't you?"

And I said, "Who told you?" She said, "Nobody told me." God told me. Mhm. That was two people in less than two weeks that came up to us and said, "You're leaving." Yeah. And we hadn't even fully confirmed in our spirit. We knew that something was changing. And then uh a couple more times it happened as we before we had announced it there.

So anyways, we got to hear in August of 2012. That was March. So for all of those months, we had several people come up to us and confirm what they did not know from having been told or announced. they came up to us and confirmed something that we had been feeling.

And in that moment, you know, that the sometimes you you want to you want to make sure because we're moving our whole life. We're moving our whole life away from family, away from friends. We're moving our whole life to to a church. And and I wanted to make sure it was God.

And don't get me wrong, I I Lakewood is unbelievable. And that, you know, the idea of I remember calling our brother-in-law and he lives in Bowmont, just about an hour and a half east of here. We called him and we said, "Uh, we've had an offer from Lakewood."

And he paused on the phone and he said, "Like Lakewood in Houston?" And I said, "Yeah." He goes, "Joel Ostein's church?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "Why?" Said, I said, "I don't know." you know, uh, but it was it was just one of those moments that it was it was so, um, and of course we had we had been connected with Pastor Craig Johnson for years.

I'd known him since 2005 when um, you know, when he came on and and Pastor Clayton and other people, but you know, it was just that moment where we wanted to hear the voice of God and and God confirming in our spirit the peace and then having other people voice that helped in the process.

Yeah. Um because we were on staff with family, especially my wife's family, and it was very difficult for her to to know emotionally to walk away and to say, "Okay, our time here is finished." Um but anyways, um h has there been a moment in your lives? Can I can I just comment on that because that's such a good point.

God, you know, those people perceived in their spirit something about you. And I love how the Apostle Paul said one time he said, "I perceive in my spirit uh that this uh this this what did he say? This boat, this shipwreck, what was about this uh perceive in my spirit that danger will come.

I'm sorry. I can't even remember the scripture. Danger will come." And they ended up having a shipwreck. Well, my whole point is there sometimes hearing the voice of God is like a perception. You just perceive something in your spirit and I believe that's what happened to them. But the point I want to make is about hearing from God through people is it is a confirmation and they are not the voice of God to you.

To you it confirmed what you already knew. That's good. And so it's so important not to take what somebody says and just go do it if you don't have that perception. if God hasn't already spoken to you or sometimes God might speak to me through a person and I don't get any witness on it.

I don't know about it. I don't know if that's what God wants me to do. Later on I do and I think back and God, you told me before it even happened. And so I just wanted to make that distinction that it's so important that we do follow God's voice and God usually uses people to encourage us or to confirm something but not to tell us what to do.

Let me just comment on that too because I'll be the negative to that. I've had people come up and say, "You're supposed to mar come up say this person said God told him that supposed to marry me or God told me I'm supposed to give up my job and do this."

You know, it's all confirmatory. In other words, it's got to be something that God's been speaking to you. I' I'd caution people about letting other people hear God's voice when they can hear God's voice themselves. So, that's the only caution that I would put out there, much like Lisa said, is confirmation and really you know, be careful if other people, you know, and the other thing is is who are the people?

Do you trust them? Do they have a long history of following Jesus? And all those things would make you stop and pause. If there's somebody you really don't know, just be careful. That's good. So, in that situation, let's pull up that thread a little bit. in that situation.

If if I'm in that situation and somebody walks up to me and they give me what they believe is a perception or or something they feel in their spirit about me, but I don't necessarily feel that peace or that confirmation in my in my heart, my soul, my spirit, um what do I what do I do?

I mean, honestly, what in that situ do I stop? Do I wait? Do I pause? Do I pray? What what is a good response? Maybe not a perfect response, but what is a good response in that moment for me as the person hearing these words? You mean to the other person?

Yes. Okay. No, no. What is what is my response with the with what they've told me? Yeah. Well, if it were me, I would pause like you said, pray about it. The other thing is if it didn't witness my with my spirit, I would treasure it in my heart or put it somewhere where I would remember it.

But I've had people and you know, my dad has told stories about what people will say negative things to him. you're this is going to happen something negative. Don't let those words take hold on the inside because if unless God's spoken to you, you know, and now you know again, if you're in error or if you're about to make a mistake and somebody can see that, that's one thing.

But I'm talking about when people just say negative things over you, make sure you don't necessarily take that on the inside. You might ponder it, you might pray about it, but don't let that unless it confirms something that you're thinking, be careful with those words. I totally agree because I would just sit on it.

My dad used to say, "Put it on the shelf and let it sit a while. Pray about it." And Mary pondered in her heart what the angel told her. And so, write it down and say, "God, what do you want me to do with this?" And and he'll show you.

But, um, anyway, I've I've had people speak negative things over me, thinking that they were speaking by the spirit of God. And a couple of times I've allowed it to bother me. But you have to know that that's not how God speaks. He is not going to speak anything into your life that's fearful because that's not God's voice.

And he's not going to speak anything discouraging. Now, correction, yes. Uh warning, yes. Uh but you know, if you know God and love him, it it's not going to bother you to be corrected. You know, you're going to be pleased to know you can do something to to better yourself or to please God.

But uh don't don't take what somebody speaks to you negative. Uh like my dad, like they did to me. You're going to go through this and that. And it just it was so negative that later in my life uh God showed me that was a source of anxiety in my life because I had allowed that to you know just register in me and I had thought about it and I had to uproot that thought and say that was wrong that was not from God I refuse to think on that anymore.

And so I think when people speak to you, it's going to confirm something you already know in your spirit or something that God will confirm with you. It's going to encourage you. Uh it's going to be a strength to you and uh and it's going to be a blessing to you, but it's not going to be a negative.

You know, I was thinking Jeremy. I like that. Lisa may have to help me. You guys may have to help me the verse, but do you remember the time I think it was in Ephesus where the man came and bound himself? He came to Paul and he said, "I perceive that you're going to have persecutions and you're going to be bound like this."

Well, it didn't phase Paul. Paul just kept go doing what God, even though that was in his future, he didn't let those words that seemed to be negative. He just lived out his life. But funny story, Lisa may remember my dad, somebody prophesied to my dad one time that he was supposed to immediately go to India.

Remember this? And he said, "Well, I guess I'll have to take you with me to know when to return." So, you know, you have to hear God's voice for your response. You got to hear God for yourself. Wow. Uh, but it's so good when people do follow the Holy Spirit and encourage people.

I mean, I remember one time I was sitting on the front row of church worshiping. But I was very uh going through a hard time, a very sad time in my life. And uh an elderly lady just touched me on the shoulder and she said, "Lisa, I used to come to church.

I came back to visit cuz I moved out of town. And she said, "I don't know what's going on with you, but she said, "God just said to tell you, don't worry. He's got you covered." And that just that blessed me so much. I hung on to that scripture uh that that word for a while.

It got me through. He's got me covered. And even today, I'll I'll I'll teach that. I'll preach that. He's got you covered. And I look back and she was right. I was worried that things were going to come out of this. There were going to be negative things.

And yet, God had me covered. And so, it's so wonderful when God speaks through people. I there have been a few times in my life where I've had that happen and somebody's just come up and said, I I when I was younger, um you know, I would have family members, cousins, my brother would joke, um you know, make jokes.

I I was not great with money when I was in high school. Money burned a hole in my pocket. And so, uh, you know, I I just I was not wise. I wasn't smart with money and things like that. And my brother was brilliant. He's he's always been very intellectual, very intelligent.

Um, and, uh, he was a he was an assistant manager to McDonald's at 17 as a senior in high school. He'd get up at 5:00 a.m., you know, he would he would go and work, then he would get off in time for school, then come back after school and continue his manager job.

Um, which I'd never seen before. So, he just had a great work ethic. So, one day he he was joking with me and he said um he goes, "You're going to be broke and poor and on the street." He was thinking he was going to use that as a motivator for me to to to change my perspective.

Um so, I I struggled with that through later high school and early college. I really those words because I I love my parents and my my father is my hero and I my parents taught me my my favorite thing by the way parents the best thing my parents ever taught me was to hear the voice of God.

It's the greatest gift they ever gave to me was for me to hear the voice of God for myself. Not for them just to dictate every scenario and situation in my life even in high school but to hear the voice of God for myself. Um, but I remember those words ringing in my ear and um and I remember when I was in my early mid20s and I had I had gotten with uh my brother-in-law and and best friend.

He's so good with money and he really taught me. I watched from afar and just learned from him even in his early 20s. He was so wise with money. He was very um uh just good investments, good decisions and things like that. I just watched him and it changed my perspective on how I handled my own money.

Then I remember one day somebody walking up to me and and and telling me literally saying, um, you're really smart with your money. And that seemed to break that thing off of me. They didn't even know those were prophetic words. That's seven years, eight years after I had heard those words ringing in my head because I was scared.

It scared me to think, am I am I am I bad with money? Am I am I do I make bad decisions with money? And it was just these words ringing in my head. So that one thing cuz we had discussed something. We were out on a trip and we had discussed something and this person said it to me and confirmed in something in my heart that I wanted to be true and that I had worked on.

Yeah. And when they said that it just it broke that thing off. It's so funny because Leslie and I were talking about you on the way up here and we were talking about how brilliant you are. So I just thought you said he just said how brilliant his brother is and you don't realize how brilliant you are you know but anyway I just thought yeah that's what no I just it's funny you know Jeremy I think one thing we can't leave on this part of the discussion is that the role of scripture in in in hearing the voice of God because you know God's blessed us with this thing called the Bible and we've got the the Bible to read and to meditate on and I think it's important to realize that every day we should have time where we read the scripture and we meditate on the scripture because probably the number one way that God has spoken to me honestly these are times that you know rare times more or less in your lives but you know when you get up and read the Bible I was reading yesterday and all of a sudden I just I had this conviction about something not not a condemnation a conviction of where I could come up higher in an area that's got speaking to me and you correction is is positive.

That's a father who cares for you. So, and it's not all positives. Read the Psalms if you're going through a tough time. I remember years ago when I was going through the Psalms. He's close to those of a broken heart. Listen, that that will never that scripture will never be the same because it came alive for me during those periods of time in my life where I was very very discouraged and broken.

So I would, you know, whoever's listening to encourage you to have a daily time with God where you read his word and to expect him to speak to you through your his word because very often a scripture that you've read 25 times will come alive and you realize that is for me today.

That's God speaking to you. And also let me just say too when you listen to Joel, when you listen to your pastor, that's God's word being spoken to you. He's taking God's word. And you know, people say all the time, Joel reads their mail. Well, basically that's the Holy Spirit through Joel, you know, helping people grow and and and and you know, sense the the voice of Jesus so that they can come up higher.

That's good. Yeah. The the Bible is the will of God. That's what you have to understand. Everybody wants to know what is the will of God. Well, until you read the Bible uh and find out what his will is that he's written, you're probably never going to get into the specific uh details of the will of God for your life.

Until you learn what his general will is for your life, that's so important because it's our Christian manual. And think about you buy a piece of furniture, you you try to put it together without reading the manual, you know, it doesn't work. You know, you just don't do well.

And when you start reading the Bible, it's like a puzzle. Things begin to fit together. The pieces begin to fit together, and you begin to understand, "Oh, that's God's will. So, next time I make a decision, I'm going to do what God said. Oh, I I'm I'm supposed to love those that hate me, okay?

I'm going to have to obey the will of God." You know, uh just I could go on example after example, but you have to obey the written word. Wow. And as you obey the written word of God, he'll begin to unveil his plan for your life, you'll begin to understand more about what you are called to do and what gifts and talents he put in you.

And I think that's so important to understand. Psalm 119:105 says that God's word is a lamp unto your feet and a light into your path. And so it's like a flashlight uh that he shines on your path and says, "This is the way. Walk in it." And every time you read the Bible, you gain wisdom and you gain revelation and you gain just good old knowledge and practical sense, you know, of how to live everyday life.

And um I really believe this. I believe that the way you uh get to know the will of God for your life is by just obeying God every day in the little things. you know, are you obeying his word? When he speaks to you to encourage someone, do you do it or just put it off?

You know, uh are you trying to take vengeance because somebody hurt you or or do you do what the word says and let God be your vindicator? Let him get re, you know, vindicate you. just every little every day do what he tells you to do because as you do that then his will just unveils for you and and he begins to speak to you more and more you know the when he can trust you with a little he will trust you with more yeah and so I don't think it's rocket science uh to knowing you know the will and voice of God is if you just obey what he's already spoken in his word then you learn his character you learn his ways and you start making better decisions and you start understanding things possibly you don't have to pray about as much because you found the answer in the word of God.

It's good. I'm reminded of uh don't quote me Timothy 3:16. Yeah. The word of God being I think that's it. Yes. Useful. The word of God is useful um for direction, correction, uh I mean even even uses reproof or rebuke. You know, I think it's in in um when God speaks to us, especially in his word, when God speaks correction to us, a lot of times, you know, the word discipline or correction can almost be a negative word, but that's a healthy thing for a father.

And to your both of you to your points about that um Nahm uh I believe it's Nahm chapter 1 verse two says uh that God's wrath is stored for his enemies but we are not God's enemies. We are not under his wrath. He disciplines those he loves. Right.

That's right. And the correction is so that we so that we come into a full understanding of who he is as as our father and who we are as his children. So good. I remember I remember going to a conference. This is 2007 or 8. I think it was here in Houston going to a conference and um uh uh TL Osborne was speaking.

And I remember him getting up and him telling the story of a of a woman stopping him in a hallway and she said, "I I want you to to give me a prophetic word. Speak to me. Give give me something." And he stopped and he said, "Read your Bible." and she said, "No, no, no, no.

I want to I want an audible word from God." And he said, "Um, read it out loud. I don't, you know," but it was just one of those moments that uh that just reminded me as I was sitting there listening. Many times God will as I open his word, he will speak through his word to me.

That's right. about about life, about who I am, about um I think one of the ways that God speaks to me many times is about being a husband, being a father. Um it's such a powerful gift for for me because, you know, my desire to be a good husband, to be a good father in relationships, to be a good employee for Lakewood Church, to be a good a good pastor for sheep in the congregation.

I mean, that's important to me. And so, um, uh, as we, as we end tonight, we have a few minutes left. As we end tonight, um, you know, is there one last moment that you can remember where God God's voice was so distinct in your life? Is there a moment um about ministry or personally um or something like that you'd love to share with with us?

Uh, yeah. I can't think of one off hand, but what about Let me ask this question. Um, Pastor Lisa, you've told the story. Um, but I hear when when you speak um about Pastor John and of course about Mama Dodie in in the in the the the love and the the reverence and all of those as your parents, but as shepherds as well. speak to to the time that he spoke to you and said, "If anything were to ever happen to me, oh yeah, follow the voice of the Holy Such a powerful."

You remembered my stories more than I did. You caught me off guard there. Uh there was a a couple of times that my dad uh just said to me as we were walking down the hallway of the church offices, he would say, "Now, Lisa, if anything were to happen to me," he was healthy and strong at the time, "Anything were to happen to me, I just want you to encourage you to do this."

He said, "You and the family, uh don't panic. Take keep control and leadership, and the Holy Spirit will show you what to do." And of course, I would say, "Daddy, don't talk like that." Well, I didn't know. A couple years later, he just got sick all of a sudden, and then he passed away.

And I remembered what he said. And so, in that, I thought, "Well, we're not going to panic. The Holy Spirit is in charge of the church. Jesus is the head of the church." And, you know, I just believe God's going to do something. Although, at the time, I had no idea, you know, what it would be.

And so, we just got through my dad's memorial service. And uh then after uh after that, Joel came over to my house and he was just sitting in my recliner across from me and he said he actually said, "Do you want to preach this Sunday?" And I said, "No, I don't.

It was too fresh." I said, "Daddy just died." "No, not really." And and he said, "Well, I was thinking about preaching myself." And I just said, "Are you kidding me? That is awesome." them and I said, "If you preach Sunday morning, then I'm going to preach Sunday night."

I wasn't going to let him preach without me preaching, you know? I didn't want to be the one not to do anything, you know? I wanted to do my part. And so, I just got I thought, "This is so amazing that he wants to preach." He had just preached this first message and hated doing it.

And so, I didn't see him doing that. So, I said, "That is awesome." Then Paul calls me and says, "God has spoken to me." And I'll let you tell that story, but God has spoken to me. What do you think about me coming back and helping y'all? And I said, "That would be awesome."

And like within I think my dad passed away on a Friday. His memorial service was on the next Wednesday. And I think this all happened on Wednesday and Thursday. And it was like the Holy Spirit took charge. The Holy Spirit, it loves his church. He loves the people in the church.

And if you allow him to be the head of the church, he's going to take care of you. If you allow him to be your head, he's going to take care of you and he's going to lead you. And so God just brought it all together. And you'll have to tell your part on that.

Let me just say one thing that it really speaks to that too because without a doubt the most audible time God's ever spoke to me, give up your practice, move to Houston and help. We can talk about it later, but those were massive words for me because I was, you know, just set for the next 25 years to practice in Little Rock.

Great church, great ministry, great practice, great partners, everything, great patience. But when he spoke to me, I knew it. But as we'll talk about later, when he tells you major directional changes, you you have to go slow. You have to pray about it. You have to make sure you have to make sure you continue to have peace.

Well, I I continued for a while to have peace about it. And I I decided that I would call Lisa. I didn't know who else to call. So, I called Lisa. I'll never forget this because I said, "Lisa," I was crying. I was standing out in by our basketball goal outside in Little Rock, crying my eyes out and saying, "Listen, I think God spoken to me.

At least I wasn't arrogant enough to say I know he did. I said, 'I think he's spoken to me. And I said, 'I think he said these three words. What do you think? And I'll never forget, Lisa, because sometimes it boils down to just clarity. She said, well, Paul, are you sure God spoke to me?

I said, I'm I'm sure. She said, well, then it's easy. I said, really, it's easy? I said, it feels hard. She said, no, your choice is to obey or disobey, and we always obey. And you know what? Really, it boils down to that. If God's if you're reading the scripture in the morning and you know God corrects you about something, you have a choice right there.

You know, you you can obey it. And Jesus, I read this yesterday. Jesus said, if if you if you're my child, you put into practice what I teach you. You obey what I say. And so those words was such a claring call to me just to say, you know what?

I'm going to obey Jesus because I think he spoke to me. And she made it so clear to me. And so it's one thing to hear God's voice, but it's another thing. In no way am I bragging on myself. I'm just saying you have to obey what he's told you to do.

It's good. And it, you know, I think about it now that I said that, you know, I think, wow, if I really would have thought it about it in my head. I mean, even my mom said, Paul, are you sure you want to give up your practice? I mean, he had this lucrative practice, this beautiful, huge home. just life was set for him and yet he was willing to give it up for the sake of obeying God.

And yet, you know, God has used you as a pastor here. He's used you in medical missions, which we can talk about next time. But it just sort of sets us up for what's coming next. The place of anointing, of peace, of satisfaction, of significance. It's in the will of God.

Yeah. And the only way you can be in the will of God is if you hear his voice. And Jesus has these words, "My sheep know my voice." It's a great way to end. We we can know his voice. That's powerful. We are going to stop there. We're going to pick it up next week.

But I do want to say this. A sign of somebody who hears the voice of God is peace and settledness in their soul. You can just tell by sitting with somebody, talking with somebody. And then of course uh if you know anything about the Ostein family, the sensitivity to the presence of God, the heart of God, it's very it's very difficult.

It's let me say this. It's impossible to hear the voice of God on a regular basis and not be sensitive to the things that are sensitive to God's heart. Amen. Um so we're going to end there tonight, but we're going to pray. Dr. Paul, would you would you pray as we end?

Lord, thank you for this opportunity to speak. Thank you for your people that are listening or watching. Lord, we just pray that you would just uh we've talked about hearing your voice. We pray that they would hear your voice, the things that maybe stirred their hearts or their minds, their spirits.

Lord, whatever it is that you're saying to them, I thank you that you said in your word, let the church hear what the spirit's saying to the church. And I pray that every one of my brothers and sisters would hear what you'd have to say and uh are saying to them.

And Lord, even if some of them have maybe heard words that um from other people have spoken over them like Lisa talked about, may they not let those words lodge inside of them if they're negative or if they've kind of set set them into emotion into a path that's negative.

I pray, Father, that they would capture those words and they would listen instead for your voice and your words. Father, if those have heard your word and they're not willing to step out in faith and obey, I pray that even tonight that they would just take that step to obey you.

And whatever, Father was they heard, I pray that they would be obedient to what you've called them to do. So, thank you for this time. Thank you for Jeremy taking the time to organize all this. And Lord, we just pray for your people and pray for the next time that we meet, Lord, that uh we would continue this conversation and it would be beneficial to everybody who hears.

We pray that in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Um, join us once again next Monday night, same exact time, same exact place. Join us again and we're going to be discussing how to distinguish the voice of God from other voices that we may hear, culture, other people, how to distinguish and how to position ourselves regularly to hear from uh from God, to hear his voice.

So, we love you. Thank you so much for being a part. We'll see you next week.