Lakewood Bible Study | Lisa Osteen Comes & Paul Osteen, M.D. ((music playing)) Hey everybody, thank you once again for joining us on this wonderful Monday night. Um we are continuing a collection of of teachings or discussions on hearing the voice of God. And once again tonight I'm with uh Dr. Paul and Pastor Lisa and we [snorts] get an opportunity um to to discuss uh what it means to hear the voice of God, how we hear the voice of God, how we put ourselves in position to hear the voice of God, the the benchmarks or the markings of distinguishing the voice of God from others. So, we're going to do that tonight as we discuss um just a little bit further. If you if you saw last week, you saw us talk about um you know uh what are the different ways that God may speak to us. If you didn't have an opportunity to watch that, I would encourage you to go back and view that uh along with this video as well. I would encourage you to do that and and look at that video because we talked about a lot of great things. There were a lot of stories uh that we talked about um or that explained uh that help us understand hearing the voice of God, knowing the voice of God in life. Uh all of us have a desire to hear God's voice. Those of us that are believers that walk by the spirit of God, we want to know, we want to uh because we want to be obedient, because we want to follow God's voice, because we want to com uh you know do the will of God, we want to hear the voice of God. And so um if you're watching tonight, we're going to be discussing that. It's a little different format uh than we usually do uh having the lecture style with a podium, but this is a really good way for us to have discussion back and forth uh much like you would with a friend in your living room. We hope that this is a a bit of that um as if we're sitting in your living room having a discussion. Um but before we before we get into it, we're going to pray very quickly. I do want to encourage you um if [snorts] you want to follow along with us, if this is your first time viewing a Monday night Bible study, uh we want we want you to follow along with us. If you'll text the words Bible study, two words put together, Bible study to 777377, you can follow along. Again, we will give you alerts uh about what's happening with Monday night Bible study. And if you have any questions from tonight, we'd love to hear from you. Bible studywood.cc bible study at lakewood.cc is our email. We'd love for you to uh reach out to us and let us know questions you may have or comments you'd love to give us u for the future. So, um, I'm here with Pastor Lisa and Dr. Paul, and I'm going to ask them, uh, to go here. But, uh, Pastor Lisa, would you pray for us? Very love to love to. I just want to echo what Pastor Jeremy said. We're so glad that you've joined us today. And, uh, I know that as you watch, you want to learn, but you probably have some needs in your life. And let me pray over you. Father, I just pray for every man, woman, boy, and girl that is watching right now. I pray that you would encourage their hearts, that you would strengthen them. I pray that they would know that you are working in their life and you're working behind the scenes whether they see it or feel it or hear it or not. Father, I thank you that you're watching over them. You're protecting them uh during this time, this pandemic time. And I I pray for healing in their bodies. I pray, Father, for healing of their broken hearts. Father, I pray that you would turn the tide of the battle in their negative situations, Father, and in their challenges. I pray that you would give them wisdom, Father, from above that they will know what to do. Bless them, Father, in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. So, we ended last week and we discussed um a little bit about uh hearing the voice of God. What are the ways that God will speak to us? And then we ended with a couple of of stories and you sharing a little bit of your of your personal stories, the church as a whole. Um, and then knowing knowing when God is speaking um either in a change of season or knowing God is speaking you to you directly about a specific situation, hearing the voice of God. So we we listed a couple of things. Uh the word of God speaks to us obviously is is the main way that God speaks. Um the impressions or the perceptions in our spirit, right? God speaking through other people. God speaking through life situations. Maybe what we would many times would define as an open door or closed door in life. Those can speak to us. Um this week what I want to do is I I u I want to I want to kind of narrow in on how do we distinguish the voice of God from other voices. And then how do we know the the second part of that is how do we know in a especially in a change of season life is full of of different seasons not you know autumn winter spring summer not those type of seasons but life is full of seasons of change or or new opportunities careers relationships schooling u moving from city to city um promotions um things like that so I' I'd love to speak to those things tonight as we get kicked off. But to start, I really want to define what what are the markings or what are the what are the the things that we're looking for that show us that this is the voice of God? What are what are the things we feel? What are the things we can see that show that show us that what we're hearing is the voice of God? And I'm just going to lay it out there for either of you to jump in. Well, you know, I'm a teacher and so I like to get real practical. And so I I think it's real important to understand what God's voice sounds like and what it does not sound like. And so I just wrote down some characteristics of God's voice. When when God speaks to you, it's going to be a voice of peace. It's going to be a voice of comfort. It will be wisdom. It may be direction. Uh it's always a voice of love and mercy and not condemnation. Uh it's a voice of encouragement. Sometimes it's a voice of warning. Uh sometimes it's a voice of correction or a reminder to do the right thing. And for instance, God leads us through peace and not fear. We talked about peace a little bit last time. And I don't know if we want to get into that more, but uh God leads us through peace. Let the peace of God rule in your heart. Jesus said, "Peace I leave you and I give you." And so we are to follow that peace. His voice is a is in peace in your spirit. Uh his voice is a voice of comfort and not control or confusion. You know, sometimes people may tell you that you need to do this or that and you think, is that the voice of God? Well, is it controlling you or is it causing you confusion or is it uh actually bringing peace and confirming what God has already spoken to you? And I I think this is so important because many people are taught uh that they have to go through someone to get to God, to approach God. They have to go through someone to get their sins forgiven or to pray to God. But the Bible teaches us that Jesus is our mediator. And so you can go straight to the top. You can go straight to God yourself. And so you don't need someone else to hear the voice of God for you. Jesus will speak to you. He will speak to every believer and you don't have to have a mediator. Jesus is your mediator. And that's why you go to the father in the name of Jesus. But uh you know how do you know the voice of God? Well, what does it not sound like? And sometimes we have to go through the process of elimination. And God is voice is not as I said it's not a voice of confusion. It's not a voice of doubt. It's not a voice of fear. And uh it's it doesn't bring disturbance or uneasiness to you in any way. Uh if you have just questions about a situation, have you ever been in a situation you think, "I don't know if I should make that house. I don't make that decision. I don't know if I should buy that house. I don't know if I should go that direction." And all you have is questions. That's usually not the peace of God. you you if you have all questions and no peace, you just back up and say, "Okay, until I get God's peace about this, I'm not going to make that decision." And um we mentioned this, but another thing is God's voice never contradicts the word of God. That's the voice of the enemy who wants to get you into temptation, sin, or even compromise. You know, okay, so I have a little disturbance in my heart about dating this person, but you know, it's okay. I'm going to do it anyway. You know, I know what the word of God says, but I'm an exception. And then you get into this mess of a relationship. So, that's the enemy. But, um, you know, there have been times when I really don't know what decision to make. Uh, but the first thing I try to do is filter out the wrong voices in in my life. Do and I do that by eliminating any confusion. Is am I confused? Am I worried? Am I fearful? And then I just say, "How do I feel in my spirit? Is there a lack of peace? Or do I have peace?" And you know, sometimes we're just in a situation and and we we just don't know what's wrong, but we feel like there's something wrong. And that's that's God saying, you know, it's not the right way. Don't go that direction. He may not give us everything. He may not tell us every detail, but he is impressing us that this is not the right choice to make. This is not the right way to go. And and I'm just going to give you one example I had. I uh about two or three years ago, I was going on to this fun trip to New York with a friend and all of a sudden I started feeling like should I go or shouldn't I go? And I thought, oh no, I do not want to get on that plane if it's not God. I don't want to go if it's not God. And and so I I stopped in my time with the Lord every day and I just said, "God, why do I all of a sudden have this uneasy feeling about going to New York with my friends? Should I go or shouldn't I go?" And I just stopped and I listened. And immediately out of my spirit, God reminded me that I had a worry about something that had happened in New York. And I had a con another concern. And when I thought about it, I knew it's not God that's speaking to me. I need to deal with this fear and this worry concerning these two situations. And I just said, "God, I'm sorry. I just I'm not going to walk in fear. I'm not going to carry that burden or that worry about that. I'm not going to let it control my life. I'm going to go on this trip and I'm going to have a fun time." And I did. And I would have missed out had I not prayed about it and just asked God, is this you or is it not? And so anyway, I hope that helps some people. Well, it's good. It's good. I think Dr. Paul, anything to to add? I just think that Lisa [snorts] said it very well, but just to monitor your spirit every day and see if you have peace on the inside because I think that's one of the things that if you get busy or there's too many other voices or too many demands or you know, you know, parenting and being a spouse, all those things can kind of push that as a priority down. And I think you have to to h have that as a priority to to sense what's going on in your spirit. And it's not what's going on in your mind. And it's not what's going on in your emotions. It's what's going on deep on the inside of you. And I think what Lisa said is really key is that is there peace? And if it's it's God's will, it's going to be clarity. There's not going to be confusion. There's not going to be shame or condemnation. And I love what she said because one time many years ago, and I don't share this very often, the Lord gave me this clear word. He said, "You're going to have a day of evil." And it's interesting. Um it was six to eight six to 12 months before the day of evil came. But that word did not bring fear. It it was it it brought comfort to know well I don't know what's going to happen but I've been warned and it didn't bring fear. So I think God's voice when he you know unless you know if he's correcting you it's not going to be fearful. It's not going to be condemnation. It's going to be conviction which is different. conviction leads you somewhere to repentance to change so that you can get on the path of life. So I would just and my dad taught us something I think that was really important that if you make a decision if you don't know what to do make a small step toward that decision and if you lose your peace back up and and then if you don't lose your peace take another step go slow and go more toward the this this is the direction I'm if any point in time you lose your peace just back up and go back to where you were before. So I think probably the most important thing we could tell people other than read God's word and being at the church is learn to follow peace on the inside. Now that doesn't mean you're not going to have emotional turmoil. Doesn't mean you're not going to have broken heart. Doesn't mean it's not going to be hard, right? You know, life is hard. Trials are difficult. Grief is real. Emotional pain is real. All those things, but you can have all that going on and you can still have peace on the inside. So, I would just say monitoring your And how do you do that, Jeremy? I I said last time I think one of the most important things you can do is put yourself in an environment every day where it where it optimizes your ability to hear God's voice. And it's probably not with scrolling so through social media. It's probably not, you know, with 50 other voices in your head. It's probably going to involve solitude. It's going to involve silence. And for me, I have to for me I it has to be nature. I have to be walking. and I have to be looking out at a tree or out at the pasture. I have to be walking outside. That puts me in an environment where God speaks to me. And uh again, he may not be, like we said last week, speak audibly to our minds, but he can let me know if I'm doing well on the inside, how things are on the inside. So So what you're saying is if I'm constantly scrolling on Twitter, it's it's going to be hard to hear God's voice. Sometimes it's going to be difficult. [laughter] So I I I love I love one of the words you used right there and you talked about peace. Um you know that the the definition I think from the scriptures many times that's a tranquility that's a that's a settledness and a and a um a a protection from noise from the outside whether it's inside or outside. But I loved what you said about um solitude. Yeah. So and I just want to make this distinct point. There's a there's a big difference between solitude and isolation, right? When we when we hear the voice of God, maybe we're walking through a situation in life, it's powerful to have wise counsel, to have friends, mentors, a pastor, um a spiritual um counterpart, somebody in your world to to speak into it. That is you can you can have solitude and be by yourself and hear and have the peace of God and hear from God but not exclude other people. Isolation is where you go no I it's just me. It's just I'm I'm trying to hear God. Um just speak to that. I know I know you, you know, doing ministry many times you've you've ministered to people and have you found it to be true that people include wise counsel in their world or have you found it to be more people tend to isolate and try to figure it out for themselves what they're hearing the voice of God? I know that's kind of a complex question or I I don't want it to be confusing. I think it's both many times. And I I know that in times of discouragement for me or when I don't know what to do to have, you know, one or two friends that I call, you know, or my family, you know, just to call and tell them what's going on and get them to pray and help me make such a difference. I I I'll give you another story. um when you know I went through a divorce when I was in my early 20s, an unwanted divorce and so it was like seven years after that until I met Kevin, my husband. We've been married 30 years this year and so thank you. Thank you. And so um anyway, but when I dated him, I just loved being with him. All my family loved him. Everything seemed to go be going good. But as we got a little bit more serious, there was a time I hit a hit a wall. I got I got scared and I I I thought I'm I'm not I'm gonna break up with him. This is getting too serious. And I said to him, I said, "Hey, I think this is going a little too fast. Uh I think I want to back up a little bit." And he said to me, "Um, that's fine. I don't want you to feel pressured." That's the that's the greatest thing he ever said to me because if people are putting pressure on you, something is wrong, right? And so you should never be pressured to make a decision or do what they tell you to do unless God is telling you to do it. So anyway, uh I just got alone and I called my best friend Deborah and I said, "This is what I did." And she said, "You did what?" And I said, "Well, I just I don't know. I got afraid. I I don't know what's going on." And she said, "Kevin is an amazing guy. God brought him into your life. Lisa, you're allowing fear to come up to you coming up into your life because of your first marriage." And I said, 'Th that's exactly what it is. I'm afraid. Is he going to divorce me? Is he going to, you know, treat me good? And so we dealt with that right there. She prayed with me. I let go of that thing. And the next day, I called him and said, "Forget what I said." Okay? [laughter] And so the it was it was over. But I had to remove myself from that situation for a minute and I had to find out what was going on in me. And uh that made such a difference. And I made the right decision. I'm so glad I stuck with it. I think I'm going to keep them. And [laughter] but anyway, um we need those people in our lives that will help us because she could see something that I couldn't see. Yeah. And I'm the same with her sometimes. I'll just say, Deborah, hey, I see this over your life. Really? You know, and I mean good things. You know, we can see good and maybe challenges in people's life that they can't see. We all have our own blind spots. Good. And I think we have to have those people in our lives that we can trust. That's good. And I think and I think Dr. Paul want you to speak to that in just a second. But I think sometimes, you know, the question would be what what what does having people in our lives or wise counsel have to do with hearing the voice of God. But uh but even Paul says it's the manifold wisdom of God that that comes through in the assembly or in the group. The wisdom of God is that what you said earlier the the clarity and the peace or the peace that comes with the wisdom of God. Yeah. Um seeing things through the eyes of of of God, seeing through things through the eyes of of faith in our lives, I think is very important. Um I I want to tell a real quick story. Tara and I were, my wife and I, uh, were were wanting to have children and we were told by doctors for a while we couldn't. And um, the first four and a half, five years of our marriage um, you know, we got married at at 31 and 27. And so um, you know, we were married for about 5 years and and she's a she's a little bit older than me, but um, but you know, we we we were mid30s. She's like, "Okay, we want to have multiple kids, so we need to get this moving." And so we um we got a phone call and it was some old friends of ours um where we used to live and they said, "We have a baby boy who is up for adoption. Um but it was a special case." And so they said, "We'd love for you to consider adopting him. Mhm. He's about 8 months and we'd love for you to consider adopting. And so, um, but they said, "We we need an answer in 48 hours." And I I have always had a rule. If I have to have an answer right now, it's no. Um, you know, very rarely in life have I ever felt like it needs to be an immediate decision. Yeah. Where God says, you know, here's what's happening. Go. Yeah. Um, and so anyways, I just we prayed about it for for 24 48 hours. We just prayed about it and I kept saying she she was, you know, it was an emotional ride for us for 5 years. It was tough. We were watching people much younger than us get married and having kids and wondering, "Okay, God, when is it our turn?" Let's be honest, we all have that moment. When is it our when is it my turn? When is it our turn? Oh, yeah. And the frustration was building and the sort of almost bitterness towards other people. We were trying to be happy for other people and oh great your third kid. Great. Um and and there was just this moment in this in this prayer about this this little boy and Tara looked at me and she said through tears she said what if this is our chance? And I remember looking at her very very tough moment as a husband and said I just don't have peace. I just don't have peace. And I'm all I'm all for adoption in every sense. Um, but I said, I just don't have peace about it. It's not the fact that it's adoption. It's not any of that. It's just I don't have peace about it. And there was friction for about a day in our home and there was real friction there. And um we didn't realize a couple weeks later she went to Disney with uh all the ladies in our family and all of the grandkids and she just got tired and tired and tired and tired of Disney. She comes back. We had no idea she was already pregnant. Awesome. And and the peace of God in that moment. I just remember thinking, "Okay, I could say, you know what? Let's do it." I could say that to her being my wife, being the one that I love and say, "You know what? This is your desire. Let's go for it." It could have been very easy as a husband to justify that and say, "God, this is a good reason." But there just was something in my gut that I could not shake and I I could not say yes. And I told her, "Babe, I can't say yes. I'm sorry. I know this hurts. I just can't say yes." And come to find out that was the situation. I mean, we had we had gone and had surgery. She had gotten scoped. I mean, we we were we we were wondering, God, what what is happening? And so, um, lo and behold, she was already pregnant, but um but in that moment, I just remember I I remember back on the situation and saying, "Thank you, God, for that peace that the peace or lack of peace that in that moment you were speaking to my to my heart and I and I I just my desire is to follow that." Yeah. And so, um, I think obviously peace is is a huge marking. It's a very important marking of hearing the voice of God. It is. I I like what the Amplified Bible says, and you might could talk on this more, but it said, uh, let the peace of God act as an umpire in your heart. And we know that an umpire uh calls a place safe or out, right? And so, the peace in your heart is saying that you're in a safe zone. The lack of peace in your heart is saying you're in an unsafe zone. And so I that's how I always think of it. And you know, sometimes we want, you know, like like y'all, oh yes, it would be nice to do this, but God knows what's best. And we have to trust his voice even when uh we don't really like that decision. We have to go with what he puts in our spirit because he knows what's best. That's why he's God and we're not. [laughter] Yeah. You know, I a couple things because what I noted there, Lisa, is that the bigger the decision, the slower you need to go. And you know, that's a lifealtering decision to have a child in your family. And so, I I applaud you on that. And um but I was going to we were talking about, you know, the scripture in a multitude of counselors there's wisdom. So, I think as you live out your Christian life and as you, you know, follow peace, it's always good to have other people speaking into your life. And you know, I see this in finances a lot. You know, people making their own decisions and all they need is a little counsel. Very often in marriages, you know, people are against getting other people to surround you and to help you and to counsel you and to encourage you. I think it's a critical area. In parenting, I think it's the same thing. And Lisa mentioned blind spots. I tell the people this all the time. I have the Holy Spirit inside of me and yet I still have blind spots. I read yesterday, Lisa, where Jesus was talking about this. He said, "You're worried about the log and somebody else's. I You've got your own blind spots." And even though we have the Holy Spirit inside, we have blind spots because we need each other to to see those. And a great example, and I've told this in Monday night Bible study, but it helps me, and I I think it'll help other people. One day, I was standing in the kitchen talking to my daughter, and something happened, and you know, I'm a guy. I don't even really know what happened, but something went crosswise. She got her feelings hurt and she left crying. And I'm just just standing there thinking, "What just happened?" And so, you know, I just kind of ignored it and went off and went on my day. And then the Holy Spirit began dealing with me. And he said, "Why don't you go ask your other daughters who witnessed what happened, what really happened?" And so I did. I went back and I went to one daughter and I said, "Listen, I just want to ask you something." Because the daughter that had gotten offended had said that I was hard and I was harsh. Mhm. Of course, you know me, that's not that's impossible. That didn't happen. That's not the way. [laughter] So, I went to this one daughter and I said, "Could you tell me what happened?" She I said, "Because this daughter says that I was hard and harsh." "Oh, Dad, you were so hard and you were so harsh." I go, "What?" And so, I thought, "Well, she might lie to me." I had another daughter. So, I went to the next daughter and I said, "I just want to ask you." I said, "This happened." And she said, "Dad, you were so hard and you were so harsh." And then I I was repentant. I said, "Well, how was I hard and harsh?" And she began to explain to me, "You said this, your body language was this, your she listed five different things that I had no idea that I had done." So, the point is is that without a multitude of counselors, you know, you're not as good as you would with people speaking into your life, even if you had good intentions. You had good intentions. I had great and I had the Holy Spirit inside me and I knew that I I I thought I'd done the right thing. I would never want to hurt my daughter, but I was just unaware that because of my intensity, I'm kind of an intense person. You know, I can come across as hard and harsh and not even know it. And so, anyway, the point is is that it's really good in in our marriages, in our parenting, in financial decisions. You know what? If I have a big financial decision, I'm probably going to call Kevin, her her husband, because he's real savvy when it comes to that stuff. But boy, in those areas, parenting and and and marriage and and who you're gonna marry, let me tell you something. That's a really important thing that you know, you're dating somebody, you bring Mr. Wonderful around. We're going to have an opinion on and not an ungodly opinion. I'm talking about we're going to have a view with with our sense in the Holy Spirit. We're going to have a view of that person. And like I would want to know what Lisa thought. I want to know what Joel thought. I would want to know what other people think. So, I think when it comes to romantic relationships, well, maybe we'll talk about that later. Very, very important in those situations. That's good. In fact, that's the next thing we're going to talk about. Um, I [clears throat] was going to say there was a moment uh about a year and a half, two years ago where Tara and I had gotten in an argument in front of our girls. And we don't usually argue in front of the girls this little. Um, but um if we do, we take the moment to explain to them this is what happened with mommy and daddy. And then we explain to them it's okay. We have disagreements. We see things differently, but we're we're together, you know, just to to to um especially with my oldest one, she's six, and she's my sensitive one. She's my empathy. She is she is very uh emotionally intelligent, and she picks up on subtle things. Yeah. But I remember I said something to Tara that was uh that was harsh, very harsh, and very direct. And it was not um it was not a peaceable statement. Um, and so it it took her back for a moment and she cried and and then we just, you know, we worked through that. About an hour later, we're out in the living room and, uh, Finley, my oldest one, comes to me and she looks me straight in the face and she said, "Daddy, um, are you going to apologize to mommy from earlier about why you were mean?" [laughter] And I said, "I was mean, wasn't I?" And she said, "Yes, you were." And I in that moment, it was the most beautiful direct correction and it was the voice of God through my six-year-old child. No doubt knowing, daddy, that's not how you talked to mommy. Yeah. And I love her for it. I love her for following that. She may not even know that. And that's how you taught her, right? She's she's spitting back what you taught her already. And that's that's beautiful. Um, let's Can I say one thing about that? Sometimes I think people want accountability partners and I'm all for that. But if you're my accountability partner, you may not know what really is going on in my life for sure. But those that are closest to you, they really know. And so I I tell everybody that have a lot of accountability partners, but a lot of them in my own home and they hold me accountable to how I want to live and not how sometimes you slip into a way that you you know you're doing something you you you you wouldn't be proud of if you could see it yourself. Again, it's just a blind spot. That's good. I love I love to listen to my kids. I mean, they'll they'll in a way I say correct uh me in in their way or they'll pull out something, you know, about me and and uh I I just love it because they're smart and I they see things the way different than I do them and and I just think, "Oh, okay. Well, I didn't mean to do that or I didn't realize that or it it's just interesting to be able to grow." Yeah. and realize that even your kids, even though they're younger, they they're pretty smart and they can help sharpen you if you let them. Yeah. And you know, so many parents just the kids are just there to to to be and not be heard and you know, they're not smart, they're not mature, but kids have they're savvy. They are and they can really help you if you listen to them. It's just interesting. And to your point, when you teach your kids to hear the voice of God and then God uses that on you, you [laughter] you're like, "Oh, it's a double-edged sword. Come back to get me," which is a [laughter] great thing. It really is a great thing. I think it it takes a boy, this will sound like I'm not in any way to my own horn here, but it it takes something to go to your kids and ask them, "Yeah, how how did I come across?" And the other thing, if you're a parent out there, the most important thing I ask my kids all the time, what's the most important thing I've ever done? They said, "Dad, you would you would repent when you made mistakes." So, you know, it's not enough for me to realize that I'd injured my daughter. I had to go repent. Yeah. And I had to tell all of them. So, I think that part of humility is saying, "Okay, I don't care who is saying this. If it's somebody that I love and trust and they're speaking truth into my life, good. Jesus said the truth will set you free, but you gota you got to embrace the truth. And the fact is sometimes other people help you see the truth. So that's powerful. That's good. Uh segueing that into let's talk about relationships. [laughter] Yeah. Okay. Relationships. How do we when we're when we're um on the on the on the precipice on the cusp on the the doorway to a relationship? Maybe we're dating, maybe we're engaged, or or even married. Um, but let's talk about before marriage and the idea of of of listening for the voice of God when we're making a decision about uh a romantic relationship. What are we looking for? What are what are the signs? Uh what are the things that come up? Um and how do we hear God to move forward in a relationship? Yeah. You want me to go or you want? Go ahead. [laughter] I was hoping you would say go. You know, I think I think this is one of the hardest areas because if you're in love, you're euphoric. You only see the best. That's right. And that's good. And it lasts for a couple years. But I think um I think I put down in my notes here um go slow and use your brain. Yeah. And you know, because God's given us common sense. And so I I would just, you know, I would encourage as I do my own daughters, ask the hard questions. And the hard questions are, what's his track record like? I'm going to assume it's a the guy I'm talking about. What's his track record like in relationships? Does he have a job? Does he have a plan for his life? How does he treat other women in his life? That's good. You know, very good. Um, is he always kind or is he only kind some of the time? Um, can he resolve conflict in a constructive way? Does he un try to understand and respect your viewpoint? I think that's an important uh point. And does he have a relationship with God or do you have to push him in that relationship with God? Is it independent of you? So I I think in the middle of all of enjoying the euphoria of being in love, this is where having other people around you can be real helpful because having other people around uh they're not in love and they can see objectively and they can help you and and u so I would just I encourage people to go slow. Um number two, ask the important questions. Number three, have people in your life that will speak truth to you and not in a controlling way, but in a way that's trying to keep you on the best path for your life. Because you know, who you marry is a big deal. 99% of your happiness in life is who you marry and 99% of your unhappiness in life is who you marry. I heard about a guy who was wearing his wedding ring on the his right finger and they said, "You're wearing it in the wrong hand." And he said, "Because I married the wrong woman." The key is you don't want to you want to marry well. That's right. So, you know, Zig Ziggler says, just to to follow up on that, Zig Ziggler said, you know, if you feel like you married the wrong person, then maybe the problem is you're just not being the right person. That's good. So, you learn to be the right mate and you'll find out you did marry the right person. Yeah. But I Were you going to say something? I was just going to say um I think it to your point we we've been talking about uh hearing the voice of God maybe through wise counsel. Uh we hear it through peace. We hear it through um perception, perceiving things. We hear it through discernment. We hear it in our in ourselves. But the people around us, especially those that we know have our best interest. That's to me that's a really important key in picking the the people around you who will be part of your inner circle, your wise counsel is do these people have my best interest or their own self interest or something to that nature. Um you can you can quickly tell with people around you. You can weed out those who who may not be there for for good motive. Um but I feel like this this is my personal perspective. Y'all speak into it. My perspective is in this particular um question in life, who who am I to marry? Who am I to be in a relationship with? What am I looking for? Speaking into that, I think there's not a better place for wise counsel than that. Because to y'all's point, sometimes you have the rosecolored glasses on. That's right. And the emotions come up and the desires and you're, you know, you're attracted to this person and they, you know, they they look fantastic in one of their outfits. You know, you know, it's one of those things that it can be the emotion can play to it, especially the beginning. Mhm. But it's more than just am I attracted to this person? It's more than just, you know, would we look good in photos? It's more than just do they do they always make me happy because there going to be points where you cross, you disagree. There's going to be things I there needs to be. Yeah. So speak into that about wise counsel hearing God through don't ignore the warning signs good that just you cannot ignore what people are saying to you or you you look at them and say well I know I know she doesn't have a job or she doesn't she's been married two or three times and there's nothing wrong with it but you just just pass them slip them under the rug. don't even think about it because you're so focused on being in love and I I just think you have to be very open and uh you need to I I really feel not only have wise counsel but get you some good books and read them you know how to save your marriage before you get married there are so many good books that will give you guidelines to know am I on the right track that's good but I I know this Jeremy I have seen just as a pastor um uh kids, teenagers, young adults getting in involved with the wrong person. And when their parents say, "Hey, look, something's not right." You know, they won't listen, they throw a fit, they leave, they get married, and they isolate themselves from their parents. And it's so sad because you probably 90% of the time that marriage doesn't work. and their parents were right. Sometimes it it it does work. I'm just saying that if you don't listen to the people that are close to you, you know, you're really on dangerous ground. And I'm not saying they're always right. But if the people around you, if the people around me didn't like Kevin like my family, then that would have been a big thing. Okay, I'm going on. I want my family to recognize he is the one for me. He is the right one. And I want to make sure they see good in him. And um I think that we have to listen uh and and just be open to to see you know maybe what we don't see because we are so clouded because of the romance and you say that the romance and the emotions Lisa that you told a minute ago. Well, I I it's interesting because I had uh I knew of someone who was getting involved with a man and I I really had reservations and I I just thought this is not right. And you know, I love Google. I love to look up things. You know, my my greatest strength is learner. So, I'm always looking things up. You know, whether it's true or not, I don't know. But anyway, um I just got I said, "What's what's his full name? Do you know what city he lives in? And she said, "Yeah, yeah." And so I looked him up. First thing that came up, he got arrested for burglary. And then another one I did this on, a different person, different friend. And he lied about where he lived and uh what he said he lived at this address. And I looked at that address. It was an old business. It was not a home. And D. So I just I told them I I told them. I said, "Look what I found." And they were they were shocked. One listened. one didn't and um and that didn't turn out good. But I'm not saying it was me, but you know, you got to do your homework on these things and you got to be willing to listen to people uh about they're what they're telling you, you know, because they love you. People love you. I started telling, [laughter] I don't know if this is good or bad, but when my kids began to be like six or seven or eight, I would just start saying to them, you know, when you when you fall in love or when you start dating somebody, I just want you to know if mommy and daddy think there's something wrong, you need to really listen to us. Because I said, as a pastor, I see all these kids making mistakes. Okay, mommy. Okay. But I wanted to condition them, if that's the right word, to be open to what to to be open to wise counsel. Yeah, that's good. You know, Jeremy, we've talked a lot about teenagers and young adults, but it's the divorce rate for second and third and fourth marriages go up each time. So, it's it's equally the same, you know, with no matter what your age. And so you've been divorced and you're going to consider remarage. It's really important to get people in there to look at the person and not knee-jerk, not have a relationship just what's it called? A a quick relationship after a a failed marriage or a failed relationship. It's really important no matter what age you are to get people in in in your life that love you and trust you. And I tell my kids, back to the kids, but I tell my kids the other day that all the time, Lisa, similar to you. I just said, "If you want our opinion, mom and dad's opinion, when you date somebody, we will give it to you, but I'm not going to offer it to you unless you ask me." That's good. Because you know what? If they don't want my opinion, I don't want them to feel like I'm going to force it to on them. And so, uh, but anyway, we're all learning. You know, none not all of our kids are married yet. So, we're just we're learning. But um yeah, anyway, I think it's important to be be careful. I was thinking about another uh instance where a a good friend uh was going to get married quickly to someone and and u I didn't know the person very well, but all her friends were telling her, "You shouldn't do this, you know, because of his past and things like that." Well, anyway, uh they came to me and said, "Would you talk to her because she won't listen to us." And and they they said, "Please go to lunch with Lisa." And so I did and I sit there and I listen to her and she said, 'You know, I know what kind of past he has. He got radically saved. He had this and that and and um I just listened to her and she said, "I have a real peace about it." And I said, I said, "Well then," I said, "The thing that bothers me now though is why do you want to get married just after a couple of months or or three months of knowing each other? That's not enough time." And uh she said, "Well, what is the good time? What do you think is a good time?" And I said, "I I would wait at least another six months." And she said, "Okay, I'll do that." She said, "I'll do that. If if that's what makes y'all feel better, I will do that." She did it. Listen, she's got the happiest marriage. Got the happiest marriage. Amazing. And that that tells me that she desired the truth. Yeah. Not just the immediate feeling of it's new. It's the emotion. That tells me she was open to hearing life. She's humility. That's right. Humility. huge. Um I I remember I had a relationship before Tara about five year five and a half year relationship. It was off and on not not real healthy uh before Tara and I were together and it was a young lady that I had we had aspirations about getting married doing ministry together and I just I just couldn't shake there was off and on all the time. I couldn't shake some of the things that I was feeling. Um, you know, but but I had the rosecolored glasses on. Both of us did because we had history and a lot of stuff there. And so I just remember the one person in my life that just did not ever come around was Jason, my brother. He's my only sibling and I I love my parents. They're my heroes, but his opinion to this day matters more than anybody else in the world. Um, and it's just always the chips have always fallen like that. And so I just remember um you know there there he just always had reservations. He said I just know. He's like I just don't see it. And I he'd be honest with me and I'd ask him and I just I it just God would speak through him. So I just remember a situation toward the end of our relationship and um some things had come out and and I'd had a few I literally had a couple of dreams from God and God was sharing things with me that were happening behind the scenes that I didn't know about and I was ignoring them. And then finally Jason came to me one day and he he told me point blank right to my face as my brother because I knew he loved me. He told me point blank to my face. And so into the relationship um for other reasons not just him but into the relationship. Um a while later um a good year year and a half later uh Tara and I were working on staff at a church together. I started we started having that connection. She was actually worked in my youth ministry. She was a worship leader in my youth ministry. But I hadn't looked at her in that way. We were just we were just ministry partners. Um but it I just there was starting to be attraction there. And I remember calling Jason from my apartment one day and telling him I said I have feelings for Tara Anderude. He goes, "Yes, absolutely without question. Yes. Character uh you know authenticity, love for God. Absolutely without question. You have my blessing." His [snorts] his opinion mattered as much or more than my parents. And if parents, mom and dad if you're watching, I love you. They know how I feel about their but Jason's opinion because I know he will be direct with me and go no. That's good. That's good. And so just hearing him say yes absolutely no question. That was for peace in my gut. I because I knew that he cared about that and that was God speaking through him about both of those relationships. And now turning back and looking 15 years ago, 20 years ago, and seeing the beginning of that first relationship, it was it was the the filter was off. And I needed other people to come and go, it's not it's not good. Yeah. It's not good. And um and I I was I was stubborn. I was thickheaded because of it. Um but that's a moment where the wise counsel in my life said, "Listen to us." Yeah. And you know, it was long-term relationship. And sometimes that's hard to back out. Yeah. Of a long-term relationship, but you got to do it if you know it's God. If if you know it's not God, you got to do it or you're just going to open yourself up to misery. And I think that, you know, when there is a long term, there's a lot of emotions, you know, a lot of ties, but it's just I know you're glad. I mean, look at look at Tara and look what God has done with you. And it's just a testament that if you obey God and do the right thing, God's going to bless you in a big [clears throat] way. That's good. That's good. All right. Anything else we want to add about about relationships? I think that's this is one of those areas for all of us. We desire to hear from God. We want to follow his will as believers, especially in the area of marriage, romance. We want to know God, what what are you saying about this person? And there's obviously good markings, you know, are they honest? Do they have an adult relationship with the truth? Um, do they love God? Is there fruit there? Seeing those things, but having wise counsel around you for that is so powerful. Um, that's good. Uh, we want to thank you. We're we're at an ending point tonight, but we want to thank you once again uh this second Monday night in a row of hearing uh the discussion with Pastor Lisa and Dr. Paul. Uh we want to say thank you for watching and and being a part um of of what God is doing with the Monday night Bible study. And uh we're we're grateful to you. Uh come back next week once again. We're going to be talking a little bit more about hearing the voice of God. This week we got to talk about um what are the markings of knowing God's voice versus other voices. And then of course in relationships, how do we hear the voice of God? How do we receive wise counsel and God's voice through wise counsel? Um next time we want to talk a little bit about a change of season. How do we know a change of season? How do we know um you know about about um when God is shifting things in our life? How do we how do we mark those things and know God's voice? Um another very important part of our walk with him. But um uh Dr. Paul, if you would pray us out. Yeah. Lord, thank you for this uh time. And Lord, just take these words that may they be beneficial, encouraging, helpful, corrective, whatever that you'd have them to be. Lord, just use these words to help my brothers and sisters. And we pray, Father, that they would just take uh take take what they've heard, Father. And if they feel you convicting or encouraging their heart, they would be obedient. And Lord, just thank you for this time. Thank you for the next time that we'll be together, we look forward to it in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. And amen. All right. Come back and see us next week, 7:30, same time, same place. and we'll continue this discussion. Uh blessings.